1. The Buildings “Braille Animal” album on vinyl was in fact to be the first release on 25 DIAMONDS – I actually had an acetate made of it (a move I never did with another release), which has unfortunately deteriorated over the years, rendering it unplayable. This project fell apart for various reasons – a theme that repeats itself later.
2. The Red Pens 7″ ended up being 25D 001. At the time of my first 2 releases, I was yet to have a logo (as later drawn by Nate Powell – see tattoo above), so I just didn’t bother putting any label info anywhere on the art. This video is from their first LP, and is the song that made me want to release a record by them.
3. The Teenage Moods “Mood Ring” LP was the 2nd release on 25 DIAMONDS, coming out simultaneously with the Red Pens 7″. I was working at a now defunct record store in Minneapolis at the time, and ended up just solicitating my favorite distributors we worked with for distro consideration – I remember how thrilled I was when both Matador and Rough Trade generously offered to carry copies.
4. The Everyone Asked About You LP is a long story, and one I’ve spent way too much lip service on already over the years. I’ll just say when Rolling Stone magazine did a feature on the band and asked to interview me about releasing the LP, I chose a hard pass on the opportunity – one of the only mature decisions I made after they signed with Numero. This video was originally released as a companion DVD included with limited versions of the LP. Fun fact: the last song of the set was planned to be on a split record with Nineteen//Nineteen.
5. Nineteen//Nineteen was a band I played in with great friends in 1999. I thought I was the only person in the world with a copy of this full set, but go figure, here it is, mysteriously uploaded to the internet by a stranger. I pressed the vinyl for the Nineteen//Nineteen 7″… legitimately probably a decade before it was finally released.
6. Ex Nuns were a local band where I knew none of the members, but asked them to do a record with me anyways. This video is from the first time I ever saw them play. Members were also in a band called Pallex, who I later released a cassette by – the first song on it (“All You Really Want Is A Dream”) remains a favorite song in the label’s discography.
7. Call Me Lightning were friends made when I moved to Milwaukee, WI. at 20 years old and quickly became my favorite local band. I had originally asked to release their first LP on vinyl, but it took 3 LPs later for a project to come together for us. I’m just glad it did. Shane remains one of my favorite drummers in the world.
8. The Salteens are one of my favorite Minneapolis bands of all time. They recorded their 7″ and promptly broke up before it came out. I had a cassette dub of the recording for literally decades that I listened to regularly. The 7″ was supposed to be released numerous times over the years – it would be very cool to see a list of all of the labels that once were involved – but in the end, I got to release it almost 20 years after it was recorded. I will always be grateful to Brad and Mike for helping make it happen.
9. Deleter were another local band with old friends I got to work with a bunch (in fact, more than any other band on the label). I am grateful I’ve been able to work with so many bands from the cities I’ve lived in. I’ve always loved when small bands make videos on their own, and this is a great example of how to do it. Deleter have since broken up (I’m almost positive), but play in a new band called Tender Comrade, who are also great.
10. Geiger Counter continues the pattern of records I was supposed to release that didn’t happen. This one falls entirely on me – I was set to put it out and go on tour with the band as a roadie/sober driver, but very shortly before both happened my mental health took a deep nose dive, and I had to cancel 2 planned releases. I was ashamed, but in later life can recognize how necessary it was. I’m glad this LP still came out, as it remains an awesome record in the legacy of Minneapolis “crust.”
11. No Statik were the “new” band of my old friend Mark (discussed more later), formed after the equally awesome Look Back And Laugh. This set was from the memorial show for Sarah Kirsch (who Nineteen//Nineteen had the great fortune of playing shows with and befriending in Bread & Circuits) – when the song “The Owl” starts at 1:47 of this video is chef’s kiss all the way.
12. Shapeshifter formed after the break up of Ataxxia (another underrated 25D release) along with members of Geiger Counter, Scaphe, etc, and released a demo and played maybe a dozen shows. We’d discussed releasing a 7″ as well, but alas, they broke up way too soon – usually the end tale of all great punk bands. I believe I still have an extra copy or 2 of the demo somewhere in my house.
13. Wrangler Brutes was a fun release. I’d written to Sam asking if I could release a live recording in some capacity, who essentially said “whatever Andy wants to do is cool with me.” Andy and I then hammered out a million ideas, eventually landing on shaping the release as a “bootleg”, when in fact fully authorized by the band. I’d proposed releasing a version on vinyl after the cassette quickly sold out, but Andy had no interest, which I always have to respect. We remain buds and it’s been awesome watching all the awesome releases he’s done on his own label, LG Records.
14. Out of nowhere came a new band called G.L.O.S.S., who released one of the best demos I’d heard in years at a point where a lot of hardcore punk was feeling pretty stale. I immediately offered to do a release, though in the end they decided they wanted to work with a trans owned label, which I thought was awesome. Jake however mentioned to me a different band he was playing in called Xylitol and quickly put the demo in the mail – upon hearing it, I thought, “well shit, I like this even better than G.L.O.S.S.”, and the vinyl version of the demo came quickly after. That said, as great as they are recorded, seeing them live was a whole other level. Laura has one of the coolest voices in punk.
15. The last 90s burned me out on hardcore bad, and I spent most of next decade as a drunk and an addict and, perhaps even worse, a “hipster”. Then I got sober and started going to punk shows again, and easily the 2 bands that got me PSYCHED to be back were Cult Ritual and Masshysteri. So much so that I considered doing a Masshysteri bootleg after they broke up. I remember talking about it with Dan, who did all my mastering at that point, who quickly convinced me not to be a scum bag. This song remains of staple of mixes to this day.
16. Total Control were one of the best bands of the last decade. So much so that I flew out to NYC to see them play 2 shows – this being the first of them. I worked with Mikey on mastering for a few releases and relentlessly asked him to let me release this recording on vinyl, though in the kindest and most respectful ways he routinely reminded me the band was very irregular and selective. This show remains one of the most fun nights I’ve ever had.
17. Continuing on in the list of records I asked to put out that never happened is Heroin. Much like The Salteens, I’ve had a cassette dub of Heroin’s set at WFMU since I was a teenager, and not long ago had a friend clean the recording up and proposed releasing it on a 12″. In theory, this release is still being discussed, but I’m fairly certain it’s not happening. Why the set wasn’t included on the discograph(ies) will always be a mystery to me.
18. I’ve been asking Pall to let me release a Black Heart Procession 7″ with this Tom Petty cover as the A side for over a decade. I even stayed at his hotel in San Diego and we had a “meeting” about it. I’ve since given up bothering him, but I’d still put it out in a heartbeat.
19. It felt impossible to pick a song by a project Fred has been in because they’re all so good. I feel very fortunate to have been able to release records by both Failed Flowers and Hydropark, and am happy to say we’re working on a release again of an entirely different project. This Idle Ray song is a banger, and I filmed this last time I saw them. The YouTube algorithms have done this upload no favors, unfortunately.
20. Back to Mark from No Statik. In the 90s he played in Impetus Inter, who were and remain my favorite local band of all time. They were incredible live, and this set is impeccable. Amanda’s drumming is just amazing on this. After Impetus Inter broke up, they formed L Vado, which morphed into Lux Vanitas, who, much like Everyone Asked About You and The Salteens, I released decades after it was recorded.
21. I cannot say enough good things about Michael Beach, both as a musician and a person. This song was the first of his I fell in love with, and the video is equally awesome. Mike and I are working on a live 12″ right now, which I’m eagerly anticipating hearing the recording of in a few more weeks.
22. This song is one of those I just randomly stumbled upon – oddly the video first – that I immediately wanted to release. The additional vocals of Sonny on this one (and one other on the LP it’s from) was just the cherry on top. I have been very fortunate to work with so many of my favorite musicians of all times, sometimes on numerous projects, and Sonny sits high on this list. Max and I talk regularly and is a great example of the beauty of friendships formed through working together on art.
23. Triumph Of Lethargy are such a weird band. Formed from members of so many “big” bands, and yet willfully, perhaps intentionally just putting out releases that fly heavily under the radar for like a decade straight. I proposed a 12″ collection as there are so many good songs on releases I haven’t even been able to track down myself. Last Spencer and I spoke, he mentioned there was a new Triumph Of Lethargy record being worked on, and I am excited to hear what comes of it.
24. This is a moment where I’m probably getting ahead of myself – a bad habit I’ve struggled with since the beginning of the label – but hell, life is for living. Gun Outfit and I are currently discussing a live record, which I’m very hopeful will actually happen. My only real request has been that this song is on it.
25. I’m texting with Chris as I write this. Talk about an artist who has continuously inspired me throughout my life. This song is from an album we are in the middle of releasing, still in that fun stage of throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks – even down to if it’s released as the lost final The Lapse album or the lost first Vague Angels album. A final mention of thanks to Matador for dropping this one so that I can release it, yet again, decades later.
#1: Let’s start with the now. Will you share with me what your current life looks like? I know you’re living in New Jersey and The Van Pelt are back together and have a new LP in the works. Care to expand? What else is worth noting?
Chris: My current life!
Ok, well I am 51 years old which means I entered “sniper alley” about 6 years ago wherein your friends start getting picked off one by one. When this happens you have two choices as far as I see it. You can double down on the grind and continue building your mausoleum compromise by compromise, or you can throw caution to the wind and start living more than you ever have. I chose the latter and it completely bifurcated my life. On side bad I have a divorce with a woman I shared 18 years with. We hit our wall where she was not willing to keep peeling away the onion at deeper levels of vulnerability. My penalty for pushing for this was to see my most intimate life partner become a stranger overnight who can no longer even look at me. Also on side bad is the fiscal hole it jettisons you into. Just when you start to think you’ve dug yourself out of that hole of poverty the arts kept you in, you find yourself right back in it. However, on side good I have a beautiful son who I can now raise with my idea of love undiluted by another’s crippled version of it. Side good also finds me reconnecting with so many vibrant brilliant souls of my youth that I lost contact with. What I’ve learned is that if you once had it in you you always have it in you. My connections and friendships might be fewer than my peers, but those I do have are so profoundly deep they root me no matter how scattered about the globe they may be. How does this translate to tangible art? The Van Pelt are finishing up our first album in 3 years and I have gone back and started re-editing my first novel, White Pigeons, as seen through wiser eyes. So, hopefully, it will be a book with a framework written by youth but the substance of a reflective soul.
#2: I want to go deeper into all of this, but let’s start with the music. As far as I know, this all started long ago in the early 90s when you were a teenager with the band Native Nod. Is this correct, or was there anything earlier yet than Native Nod?
Chris: In fact there was a band before Native Nod called Mental Floss featuring the ex-drummer of Agnostic Front, Dave Jones.
Dave wrote all the lyrics so all I did was sing and dance around. I was 16 and I only lasted half a year.It was at a Mental Floss show in Montclair that Dave and Justin from NN decided I should be the singer in the band we’d start.
#3: And so tell me more about Native Nod. It sounds like you were 16 when it started? In NJ? Do you have recollection of the influences and intentions surrounding the band? Did the band feel well received and/or respected despite being young teenagers? Were there reasons the band ended? Have you been surprised by the continued interest?
Chris: Yes I was 16, my brother Danny was 15 and on drums, Dave and Justin were on bass and guitar respectively and each 14.
Every now and then people ask us for unreleased tracks and the only thing we have is a cassette demo that is interesting if only to see the leap that happened for us in that short time span. When we first started we were mostly influenced by grunge, we even covered a Mudhoney song live. But, in my opinion, that 1990-1992 time span was one of the great eras for music. So much mind blowing music was coming out every week, stuff that still holds up today, For example, we went to see Smashing Pumpkins play at Maxwells in Hoboken in 1991. Codeine opened for them. Codeine! We had never heard anything like it. Then I saw Heroin play at ABCNORIO. I mean the list of groundbreaking music that was coming out then was endless and being kids at the edges of New York City meant it was all so easily accessible to us.
So we were the youngest kids at the shows, which meant no we weren’t taken seriously. Then Sam McPheeters asked us to put a song on his Fear of Smell comp and people started treating us differently. Gravity asked us to do a 7″ but, taking our cue from DC, we felt a scene should be local and we went with Gern. Then popularity hit and that’s the reason the band broke up. A scene that supports quickly becomes a scene that cliques and it no longer spoke to me. I quit a day before we were supposed to do a full US tour over an argument about playing a show at Jon Hiltz’s basement. It no longer represented to me what it did when it began and, being a teeneager, I did something drastic rather than more tempered.
Is there still a continued interest? Ha. No, nothing surprises me. It’s more often the worst bands that get the most interest anyhow so I detach myself from the whimsies of the masses the best I can.
#4: And then came The Van Pelt – or was there anything bridging between? Had you played guitar previous to starting The Van Pelt? The sound and feel between Native Nod and The Van Pelt feels noticeable – were there new inspirations that reflect that change?
Chris: Then came The Van Pelt!
In between and during both bands I was also playing trombone for the World Inferno Friendship Society.
I did in fact start playing guitar in Native Nod towards the end of the band, but we never recorded like that nor played live with me on git. The first Van Pelt record was a response to what we felt was happening around us in NYC. It felt like the proper song was being abandoned. There were so many great art rock clubs like Tonic and the Knitting Factory, the idm dj was more common than the classic rock band format, and add to that that we were aware that the final angsty bursts of our teenage years were in the process of burning off. So that first Van Pelt album was an ode to the anthem. The anthem is dead, long live the anthem!
That put us on every A&R guy’s radar so we were scouted by every major label in town and respectfully declined. However, a massive winter storm hit NYC in the winter of 1996 and that roughly coincided with the end of college and the entry into the real world for us as well. It was a blow we weren’t ready for, hence the quick about face from Stealing From Our Favorite Thieves to Sultans Of Sentiment. The floor dropped out for us and that reflected in the kinds of music we made. Sultans is a beautiful bummer.
#5: There’s a lot to mention from this period – let’s see if I can keep it cohesive. With The Van Pelt came an entirely new set of musicians, including Toko, who, if memory serves, became your wife – is this correct? Can you speak of how the formation of The Van Pelt came to be? And what led to the initial demise?
You also mentioned the choice to stay with a small label – Gern Blandsten, who you released records exclusively with through both bands thus far reflected on and into the first full length from your next project, The Lapse. Can you talk about your relationship with Gern Blandsten and it’s owner, Charles Maggio? What influenced the decisions to avoid the enticement of major labels and stick with a firmly independent?
Chris: Ok so real quick, Toko and I never got married. I was getting her O Visas each year via “The Van Pelt Inc.”. We incorporated the band so she could stay.This got harder and harder to do so at a certain point I suggested we get married. We broke up during this time. I was still up for marrying her, but I think she was more bent on killing me.
The evolution of the Van Pelt is an interesting one tho, because none of the current members were technically in the original band, not even me. There was a band that was playing in an NYU dormand they needed a bass player so I joined . The two guitar players were at each others’ throats so I then wound up writing the songs . The drummer quit so we got Neil to join – and that became the first line up for The Van Pelt. The current line up was the line up for our second album, Sultans of Sentiment. This is the lineup that’s lasted through the years.
The initial demise is interesting because I attribute it to timing. With Sultans we got really good at restraint . But in order for restraint to make sense, in my opinion, you need to allow the opposite to happen every now and then. I was impatient . I wanted to blow gaskets after Sultans, but other members wanted to continue honing restraint . Again, not having the social skills of adults , we broke up.
When I think back to turning down all the offers, you know the thing that stands out to me more than ethics was sustainability. I didn’t want to be a band that wound up in the used bin, dropped by their labels never to be touched again . I wanted the freedom to continue making art the way I wanted to make it and remaining on an indie seemed the best route for longevity. That said, eventually I lived through that anyhow – when Matador dropped the Lapse no one would ever touch anything I made again.
Regarding Gern, the early days were really exciting . When it was time to grow though there was a lack of accountability, transparency, and forward thinking. To this day I have no idea how many albums we sold.
#6: I had this wrong! So were you and Toko at all romantically involved, or was the proposition of marriage based only in securing citizenship?And then, given all of this, how did things lead to The Lapse? Was the.. idea, frame of The Lapse centered around you and Toko? And yet, at some point The Lapse continued without Toko?
I stumbled upon another interview since starting this where you referred to the first Lapse album as the worst album you’ve ever made. Do you still feel this way? What about it made it the worst? Can you find redeeming qualities in it?
And then for the second Lapse LP, you made the move from Gern Blandsten to Southern. Did you find the move more satisfactory? Do you have better feelings about this Lapse record?
You also mentioned “when Matador dropped The Lapse” – was there a proposed 3rd LP to then be released on Matador? You’ve told me of Vague Angels and Matador, but perhaps it’s not yet time for this story.
Chris: We were romantically involved! We dated for about two years. The last year of The Van Pelt and the first year of The Lapse. We recorded the second Lapse album while we were in the process of breaking up.
The idea of “The Lapse” is a theme I’ve never made it beyond, the spaces between things, transitions, processions to and fro but never at a fixed point — this is where real novelty happens. The Lapse did continue without Toko because we had two tours booked and she quit right before them. I didn’t want to cancel the tours and when I started playing with different people it just seemed to fit into the theme of endless transitions even more.
Betrayal as the worst album I ever recorded: I do find more redeeming in it now than I did shortly after we recorded it. Immediately after recording it it felt too reactionary to me of what I was coming off of with The Van Pelt. After the clean recordings and all that restraint with The Van Pelt I just wanted to explode. I wanted a raw recording and I wanted to leave the flubs in so it felt as alive as possible. I was also listening to a lot of Jimi Hendrix at the time and I loved the poor quality of his early bluesier recordings. I was also kind of looking for a fight. I wanted to disturb things and lyrically I leaned on that with a heavy hand. I was so worried about a risk-averse world. I still am, but I’d like to think I approach that fear now with a more tempered tone. That said, I’m listening to it as I respond to this and I find myself falling back on the original theory, not entirely angry that I made the album that way.
I love the second Lapse album! I think you can feel the tension between Toko and I come through. So the switch to Southern was interesting because we signed to Southern UK not Southern US, and the US team was never really on board with that signing. It went well in the UK, but the Chicago office never really liked us. That’s also par for the course though, all of my music has always done much better in the UK than here.
Truth Loved by Vague Angels was originally the third Lapse album. We signed to Matador as the Lapse in fact! I changed the name after that fell apart and I wanted a new start.
#7: You’ve mentioned to me you’ve felt more… successful, appreciated in the UK than the US – do you have any sense of why this is? What has the balance of touring the US versus other countries looked like in your life? Do you feel any bitterness or disappointment in what then must feel like a lack of support in your home country? Has the feeling ever been strong enough to consider leaving?
Chris: Americans don’t care about lyrics, they do overseas. Stateside I’m a novelty act, a guy who talks a lot about nonsense. Overseas people actually take time with your lyrics. Foreigners who speak English as a second language spend more time dissecting my lyrics and coming back to me with thoughtful dialogue than a single American ever has. Bitter isn’t the right word though, I think it’s closer to despondency. People of our ilk don’t make music for money, we make it to add something to the ether, to nudge the discourse along, to connect and communicate in ways that straight speech falls short. So yes it’s sad that nothing I do here generates discussion, that I have to go overseas for that, but would I live overseas? I have lived in Italy several times. I speak the language and I’m a citizen even. I lived in Glasgow for six months once. I lived in Mexico for four months. I lived in Los Angeles for two years, that’s almost overseas! I don’t particularly have a home I need to be at, but I do have some needs my home must meet. It needs to foster serendipity. It needs to have enough different cultures that no cultural encumberments can form and slow us down. And it needs to have an economy, a way for people to grow and continue sharing.
#8: Does your current home meet these needs?
Chris: Sort of!
Structurally Jersey City does, and ethnically by some measures it’s the most ethnically diverse city in America, but societally I’m not sure anyone is looking for serendipity anymore.
#9: There’s meat yet to chew here, but I don’t want to get too sidetracked.
From The Lapse begat the… band? project? Vague Angels. You mentioned the 3rd Lapse LP shaped the first Vague Angels album – I’m seeing a trend here. Are 3rd albums a curse for you?
So The Lapse is signed to Matador and then breaks up. Let’s take it from there.
Chris: Ha, maybe!
By the time The Lapse signed to Matador it had become a real band with Don Devore (Ink & Dagger) on bass and Jason Kourkounis (Hot Snakes, Delta 72) on drums, so we started to feel like we should rename. We tried out Sparrow for a few shows but went back to The Lapse. So when that whole project crumbled I already had foot out the door regarding the name as well. Vague Angels would be just me, with truly no idea where to go.
(The Lapse)
#10: And so at this point are you in a contract with Matador but without a band? And from which Vague Angels is formed?
Let’s talk about the first Vague Angels album, Truth Loved. Who else participated in this album? What were the circumstances? Will you go into what happened as this album reached completion?
Chris: No, worse — I’m in contract with Matador AND finally with a solid band. The album they signed us for was Truth Loved, I just released it as Vague Angels rather than The Lapse after this whole thing fell apart. But it’s worse that I had a band because three people changed their life plans for it rather than just one. We had a tour of the UK booked as well as a tour with Malkmus later in the fall. Matador dropped us after both tours were booked — so we toured without a label or a record. The UK tour started on 9/14/2001 — 3 days after the Towers fell.
So on that album you have Don & Jason as previously mentioned, you have Gibb Slife from Les Savvy Fav and his brother, you have my brother Danny, my cousin Johnny, other former Lapse bass player Gary Keating, and you have Kurt from The Lilies in the studio for much of it. It was such a TIME.
#11: So this speaks of 3 labels now who’ve disappointed you – are you souring at this point? Where did this leave the original state of Vague Angels? Is it safe to assume it made these tours less than ideal?
Chris: Exactly, with no one working you touring becomes incredibly difficult. In 2004 and 2005 I did months and months of touring either alone or as a duo.Life changing tours for sure, but near zero fans gained and most turnouts were pretty poor. In 2007 I then toured Europe for 7 weeks with a full band and in 2008 I toured Europe both solo and with a band sporadically, as I was living in Bologna. By these points the world had moved on from what I was doing in so many ways. The sound of bands, the lustre of bands, the way bands connect and are marketed. I was way out of my league. I sold off all of my equipment in 2009 except for one guitar. However, it was also in 2009 that SXSW had it’s first “90s Emo Showcase” and so that was the first time The Van Pelt got back together since our breakup in 1997. So just as I tried my best to close the door, a new door opened.
#12: You’ve segued beautifully for me into my next questions. In short, things get hazy for me here – somewhere in the decade we’re now speaking of you released 2 more Vague Angels albums, along with your first novel (containing the first VA album along with it), then 2 more books, as well as the initial Van Pelt reunion. Let’s make sure this interview isn’t infinite and elaborate on all of these projects as you see fit?
Chris: It gets confusing for me here too!
So this is how I remember it:
Early 2000: start writing White Pigeons, my first novel
Spring 2000: start recording Truth Loved, intended to be the a Lapse album
Spring 2001: Sign to Matador
Summer 2001: get dropped by Matador
Early Fall 2001: Towers Fall on 9/11, we start a UK tour booked through Matador with no tour support nor label in sight on 9/14
Later Fall 2001: We tour with Malkmus
Early 2002: With no interest in our band anymore we decided to rename ourselves Sparrow and start fresh
Not much later in 2002: Don Devore quits to move to Australia to make a record. Jason Kourkounis quits to join the Burning Brides who just signed a huge deal
Spring 2002: I work the album into a chapter of White Pigeons and rename the band, Vague Angels
2004: I write my second book 57 Octaves and release the second Vague Angels album “Let’s Duke It Out At Kilkenny Katz” on a Brooklyn label called Pretty Activity
2007: Start recording the last Vague Angels album “The Sunny Day I Caught Tintarella di Luna for a Picnic in the Cemetery”
2009: that album comes out on a German label called Expect Candy, a release a book of short stories called “Feathers Like Leather” on Wes from Cold Cave’s Publishing House called Heartworm, and the Van Pelt play SXSW
#13: This brings us to the 2010’s. 3 books out, 3 Vague Angels albums and a Van Pelt reunion. Then what? Are you in NJ for all of this? Are you married yet at this point? Has your child been born yet?
Chris: I got married in 2008 while in New York, but in 2012 my wife and I moved out to Los Angeles where we lived for a little over two years, though we spent every fall in Italy working grape harvest and learning how to make wine.
At a certain point she and I both felt like we would never be Los Angelinos though. We loved it there, loved our jobs, loved our friends, but the way of life felt like it would always be alien to us, so we decided to move back east and start an importing company in New Jersey.
The reason we chose Jersey, aside from me being born there, was that we saw the smaller towns of America changing for the better as we drove back and forth across the country. When I was coming up in the 90s the only choices for people like me were the mega cities, but now that the mega cities had become unaffordable you have this whole generation of kids staying put and making wherever they were from cool. I decided to do the same with Jersey.
My kid was born in 2018!
#14: Can you tell me a bit more about your appreciation of and involvement with wine and Italy?
So we’re getting closer back to the present. What happens for The Van Pelt after the initial reunion shows? What happened to Vague Angels?
Chris: I hung Vague Angels up in 2009 and planned on never playing music again. Then those SXSW shows came along for The Van Pelt and a seed was planted. In 2014 a Spanish label La Castanya released “Imaginary Third” by The Van Pelt which was 7 songs that were meant to be the third Van Pelt album. That got some attention in Europe so we were asked to play an All Tomorrow’s Parties festival in London called Jabberwocky. We built a small tour around that and that’s when we knew we had to get back together. When we were rehearsing the old songs it felt impossible not to write new ones. Like The Van Pelt as a band is its own thing, sum larger than the pieces thing.
Italy: man that’s a long story. We first toured there in 1997 and I loved it so I started learning the language. Italy and the UK are the two places in the world where I’m most successful musically so I found myself going back there all the time, making friends, finding a wife, figuring the culture out. As far as wine goes, I got my first job in wine in 1999 at a wine bar in NYC. Since then it was something I just kept growing closer and closer to. It never grows old, never bored me. Also, it felt like a good compromise between the world of the arts and the world of surviving. Winemakers are maniacs and agriculture is magical.
#15: We’ve returned to the now. How are you doing? You’ve shared with me these are pretty uncertain times for you right now. Feel free to elaborate however you choose.
And let’s get future forward while we’re at it. What’s next? I know there’s a new Van Pelt LP and you and I are planning to release Truth Loved on vinyl, both in 2026. But what’s tomorrow like for you as well?
Chris: Great question!
So the stage in life you find me at is completely bifurcated. A year and a half ago my wife and I split up.I love her dearly and always will, but after 18 years it was clear that some fundamental things that needed to change never would.However, I didn’t want to break up. I never believed in marriage in the first place and pushed us against getting married. It’s a flawed rite.If you came into my wine shop and I said “Hey! You absolutely need this bottle of wine! 50% of those who purchase it return it and we estimate another 50% of those who keep it aren’t satisfied with it, so basically we’re talking about a bottle of wine that only 1 in 4 will love. Buy it!” You’d never buy it.That’s marriage. So if I don’t believe in marriage then I therefore shouldn’t believe in divorce.I loved so so much about her, why have to give it all up?I suggested we “loosen the lid” on our relationship. She wasn’t having it.We owned our house and businesses together so I’m in that awful phase right now of lawyers and mediators and courts and impending poverty. But I did say it’s bifurcated right? On the other side of have a 7 year old son who expands my worldview every second I am with him, I have girlfriend who I’ve loved since the 90s, I’ve reconnected with all the incredible friends of mine scattered about the globe that have never given up peeling away the onion as far as it will go, and I’ve reignited my own artistic flame. I am more inspired now than I have been for decades.
Yeah I can’t wait to have these two albums out in the same year! It’s such a mad game trying to claw yourself back into conversation in your fifties. Almost no one succeeds, yet you have no choice but to go for it anyhow.
#16: I’ve got just 2 more questions now, scout’s honor.
Are you able to find hope and inspiration through your divorce? How many facets of your life does it directly affect? Does focusing on art help? Does anything? Can you see beyond the current?
Chris: It’s tough, but yes there is so much inspiration in this. There’s so much unveiling of people’s true characters I couldn’t see before and that’s liberating as well. Being broke is something people of our ilk wear well, but that whole thing changes when you have a kid, so that’s stressful — but again, also inspiring. What better lesson can you teach your kid than how to persevere against all odds.
And yes I can see beyond this. It will feel like such a weight has been lifted and I can really take off.
#17: I’ve put this one off until the very end as I didn’t know any other spot to insert it.
You mentioned people in the US don’t care about lyrics. I typically keep a hard stance on artists have zero obligation to explain their art, but I’m breaking a rule here.
In “Punk House”, it seems clear you’re referencing early tours/shows/even a mutual friend by name in a seemingly retrospective reflection. That said – I don’t have a clear feeling on if these are actually good memories or not. Are you a nostalgic person? Would you do the 90s all over again?
And finally: I’m going to ask you to put your money where your mouth is here. Please name me 5 amazing lyricists – even down to specific passages if you’d like to – and just what about them makes them special to you.
Chris: Punk House:
Both! That’s what nostalgia is to me. It cuts both ways and it’s very dangerous, but would I do the 90s over again…Fuck man yes, yes I would. It was the last decade where we were still reaping the benefits of our empire gains in both World Wars. We didn’t know it yet, but we were living on borrowed riches. We were the first generation of men on the planet to never have to fight in a war, that had to have had epic repercussions. Yeah man, I think the 90s will be studied and remembered for ages.
I love that you put me to this test.
So
1. Mogol was an Italian lyricist who was most famous for writing for Lucio Battisti.”Ancora Tu” is a great song wherein snippets might not tell the whole story, but here’s the vibe:
Non mi sorprende, lo sai
Ancora tu
Ma non dovevamo vederci più?
E come stai?
Domanda inutile Stai come me
E ci scappa da ridere
It doesn’t surprise me you know
..you again
You know we weren’t supposed to see each other again
And how are you doing?
Man what a useless question
You’re just like me
And then we start laughing again
Or “La Collina Dei Ciliegi”
E se davvero tu vuoi vivere una vita luminosa e più fragrante
Cancella col coraggio quella supplica dagli occhi
Troppo spesso la saggezza è solamente la prudenza più stagnante
E quasi sempre dietro la collina è il sole
And if you really want to live a brighter more fragrant life
Cancel with courage that which begs from your eyes
Too often wisdom is just stagnant prudence
And almost always the sun rises behind the hill
Again, these are snippets that would do better within the whole
Another Italian, Rino Gaetano. I’ll put this one complete and leave it to whoever reads this to translate. It’s “Sfiorivano Le Viole”
L’estate che veniva
Con le nuvole rigonfie di speranza
Nuovi amori da piazzare sotto il sole
Il sole che bruciava
Lunghe spiagge di silicio e tu crescevi
Crescevi sempre più bella
Fiorivi, sfiorivano le viole
E il sole batteva su di me
E tu prendevi la mia mano
Mentre io aspettavo
I passi delle onde
Che danzavano sul mare a piedi nudi
Come un sogno di follie venduto all’asta
La notte, quella notte cominciava un po’ perversa
E mi offriva tre occasioni per amarti e tu
Fiorivi, sfiorivano le viole
E il sole batteva su di me
E tu prendevi la mia mano
Mentre io aspettavoIl sole che bruciava, bruciava, bruciava, bruciava
E tu crescevi, crescevi, crescevi più bella, più bella
Fiorivi, sfiorivano le viole
E il sole batteva su di me
E tu prendevi la mia mano
Mentre io aspettavo te
Mentre io aspettavo te
Si lavora, si produce, si amministra lo stato
Il comune, si promette e si mantiene a volte
Mentre io aspettavo te
Il marchese, La Fayette ritorna dall’America I
mportando la rivoluzione e un cappello nuovo
Mentre io aspettavo te
Ancora penso alle mie donne
Quelle passate e le presenti le ricordo appena
Mentre io aspettavo te
Otto von Bismarck-Shonhausen
Realizza l’unità germanica e si annette mezza
Europa
Mentre io aspettavo te
Michele Novaro incontra Mameli
E insieme scrivono un pezzo tuttora in voga
Mentre io aspettavo
Let’s take a break from Italian for a second and return to the powers of pop in English.I tried to watch that Billy Joel documentary and he was too much of a madman for me to finish it, but I did always love that he slipped difficult themes into pop and no one noticed. “Only The Good Die Young” is a song about a Jewish guy trying to deflower a Catholic school girl. Brilliant.
And let’s stay in pop but head back to Italy. Luca Carboni was/is a huge pop star but he started out weird and on heroin.”Co Stiamo Sbagliando” is an all time favorite:
Ci stiamo sbagliando, ragazzi
Noi che camminiamo sul mondo
Noi coi piedi di piombo
Restiamo giù
Sotto cento chili di cielo
Eh… siamo forse degli angeli
Noi no, noi che non siamo le stelle
Nemmeno le donne, nemmeno quelle
Quelle più belle
O le commesse dei negozi del centro
Quelle vivono a mezze giornate
Eh… no che non sono le fate
Noi, noi ladri di mille lire
Cercando il modo per non morire
Per non pagare le tasse
Per far passare la notte
Ogni tanto parliamo d’amore
Magari fuori c’è il sole
O che magari piove
Poi no, che non siamo da soli
Magari siamo in cento milioni
Cento milioni di cuori
Cento milioni di matti
Graffiamo e poi facciamo le fusa
Eh… proprio come dei gatti
E come i gatti dentro ai giorni e alle notti
Noi ci incontriamo e ci guardiamo negli occhi
E poi facciamo l’amore
Sì, sì, facciamo l’amore
E ogni tanto ci facciamo del male
Eh… e ogni tanto è normale
Basta non farsi mai prendere in giro
O, almeno
Non farsi portare lontano
Vedi che bella la vita
Basta andare più piano
Magari dimmi come vivono gli angeli
Dimmi le fate
O se le hai mai incontrate
But later he had this pop hit “Mare Mare Mare” that was anything but what it sounds like. A young guy heads out on his motorcycle from Bologna at night to head to the seaside, but when he gets there the girls just laugh at him and he makes no connections. Too distraught to even drink, he just gets refills of his coffee at the cafe and then drives back. But in the song he sings out “Mare Mare Mare” and if you aren’t paying attention you can get pulled in.
Italians are the greatest lyricists on the planet and I could go on and on, but you said only five so I’ll end with the best lyrics ever written, the lyrics I will always be chasing, “Year of The Cat” by Al Stewart:
On a morning from a Bogart movie
In a country where they turn back time
You go strolling through the crowd like Peter Lorre
Contemplating a crime
She comes out of the sun in a silk dress
Running like a watercolor in the rain
Don’t bother asking for explanations
She’ll just tell you that she came
In the year of the cat
She doesn’t give you time for questions
As she locks up your arm in hers
And you follow ’til your sense of which direction
Completely disappears
By the blue tiled walls near the market stalls
There’s a hidden door she leads you to
“These days, ” she says, “I feel my life.
Just like a river running through
The year of the cat”
While she looks at you so coolly
And her eyes shine like the moon in the sea
She comes in incense and patchouli
So you take her to find what’s waiting inside
The year of the cat
Well morning comes and you’re still with her
And the bus and the tourists are gone
And you’ve thrown away your choice and lost your ticket
(VUE also played this show – they had played earlier in the night at the 7th St Entry with I believe The Makers? We raced over after their set and stole them away to play again in exchange for housing)
Lost and shared with me by a friend who found it in their Infinity Dive 7″. Clearly my work, but I have zero recollection of making this. Note the Hotmail address and $3 ppd price point.
#1: Hey Mike! Know you just got back from a US tour – making this the 3rd continent you’ve toured this year, correct? How have tours been going for you? What makes for a good tour? Is it a different experience in different continents? Are you seeing a unique appreciation as an artist throughout particular parts of the world?
M: Hey Ian, Yeah, we’ve hit North America, Australia, and Europe this year – it’s been a busy one. I’ve felt pretty lucky – each of the tours has felt like a dream run. It’s been a blast playing with Nick and Monika and folks have responded well. It feels like there’s a bit of progress or momentum, so that keeps things exciting. Things that make a good tour: good crowds, good food, good weather, comfortable accom (we were very lucky to stay with some very generous folks this last year). Less glamorous, but vitally important are folks buying tickets, records, and merch – the money side of things is totally make or break on a tour, and we’ve been really fortunate there as well this year. On top of that, bigger festivals anchor a tour, so festivals like Binic Folks Blues in France and Gonerfest in Memphis really made things possible this year.
#2: So I’d like to go way back to the beginning. I know you’re originally a California guy – can you talk about what your life was like there? When and in what capacity did you start making music? Do I remember right in hearing you did sound at The Hemlock Tavern in SF for quite awhile?
M: I was born in Merced, California, in the Central Valley. We were fairly close to Yosemite National Park. My childhood was a pretty average middle class suburban semi-rural one. I didn’t really fit into that sliver of American society. I picked up a guitar for the first time in college in Santa Barbara, but it wasn’t until I moved to Melbourne that I really started digging in, playing in a first band, going to shows, being exposed to something other than MTV and mainstream radio. After a year in Melbourne studying, I moved to LA and started working in studios and writing music for the first time. I was in Melbourne for a year, then LA for three, then back to Melbourne for five years. After visa struggles, I was back in San Francisco in 2010, and that’s when I started working at the Hemlock. That was a real transformative experience – I was probably seeing 10 bands a week, and Hemlock was an epicenter for independent local and touring musicians in SF. Anthony Bedard, who was the booker for the Hemlock, is now my booking agent (Talent Moat), so that was a very influential time.
#3: So was your initial move to Australia for college, then? What was it you studied? How did the culture feel different than in CA? Was the move to Los Angeles calculated? Was leaving CA once again for Melbourne calculated as well? What drew you to Australia?
M: Yeah, my initial move to Australia was for an exchange in 2002 – my last year of college. I studied world religions. I had been brought up in a relatively conservative area by relatively conservative parents. Melbourne’s culture for me at that time was very much the opposite – I loved the absence of taboo and the city’s thriving arts and music scenes. Moving to LA after that year was really just a stab in the dark. I had returned from Melbourne enamored with the place and the people, and didn’t really feel like I had a place to return to. I moved to LA because there was a recording school there and I knew I wanted to make music. Leaving LA a few years later for Melbourne was totally calculated – I spent a lot of time researching visas, and trying to find a way to get back over there. I never really fell into a scene I liked in LA – I look back somewhat fondly of my youth spent in studios, but really that part of my life seems disconnected to the musical path I found myself on once I was back in Australia.
#4: Okay, so now you’re back in Melbourne for 5 years. Are you playing in bands at this point? And/or solo? What’s the musical atmosphere looking like in 2005 – 2010? Are you feeling any different treatment, being from the States? What are you doing to make ends meet on a visa?
M: When I moved back to Melbourne in 2005, I started playing music with friends straight away – this was a particularly formative period for me, slowly figuring out how to be in a band, book shows, and put out releases in a DIY manner. There were always a few songs that I wrote that didn’t really fit the bands that I was playing in, but I didn’t really start playing on my own until 2008. The musical atmosphere in Melbourne at that time was incredible. Slowly, the music scene was moving to the north side of the river, but there were still some interesting things happening in St. Kilda. It felt like I caught the very end of that scene, and was lucky enough to see Rowland S. Howard play a handful of times. Bands like the Stabs, The Drones, Dirty Three all loomed pretty large at the time for me in Melbourne. I also got to see The Saints, Laughing Clowns, Beasts Of Bourbon, Scientists, etc. It was a pretty special time. I was a bit of a novelty being from the states, but I did my best to adapt myself and not stick out too much. I started teaching music at this time – it was one of the things I could do with the visa I had.
#5: I’m incredibly jealous you got to see Rowland play. The Birthday Party are a top 5 for me without a doubt. Tattoo to prove it.Were there any options at all for you to stay in Australia? How are you feeling about leaving at this point? What made you move to San Francisco this time?
M: Unfortunately the visa I was on was only a temporary one, so I missed out on extending it. Australia makes it extremely difficult for people to gain residency outside of student and limited work visas. When I had to go back to the states, I wanted to try someplace different – LA was never the right fit for me, and at the time, SF and Oakland had a great music scene. My family is in Northern CA, so that was a factor as well.
#6: So now it’s 2010 and you’re in the Bay Area working at the Hemlock. Are you making music upon being back in the States? Do you have to form a whole new band, or are you kicking it solo at this point? Where are we here in the lineage of your recorded output? How are you liking SF?
M: I tried my best to hit the ground running as soon as I moved to SF, but it took a while to get things going. I did some recording with my friend Ray Raposa up in Portland (A Horse 7″), went on a couple solo tours, and tried to play as much as possible. I was keen to get a band together at that point, but things take time in a new city. I played a show with Utrillo Kushner (Colossal Yes) in 2011, and we really hit it off. I asked him to play drums on an upcoming recording (Mountains + Valleys EP), and things kinda grew from there. Utrillo is a person who is universally loved, and had done a lot of touring in the past, so once I knew him, my universe kinda opened up as far as a Bay Area and US underground music scene is concerned. He’s played on every record I’ve made since, and I really feel like I owe a huge part of my career as an artist to him.SF was pretty cool when I moved there in 2010. Hemlock had a really consistent stream of great shows happening, and bands like Sic Alps, Oh Sees, Ty Segall, Kelley Stoltz, Grass Widow, and tons more were playing a lot. Looking back I probably caught the very tail end of that scene. By 2012 the city felt somewhat overrun by tech frat dudes, a lot of bands broke up or moved to LA, and Oakland was the much more interesting of the two places, so I moved over there.
#7: Golden Theft, your 2nd album, comes out around this period of time as well, yes? Are you feeling a sense of.. a “fan base”, of a musical community? Do you have a hope of or a plan to return to Melbourne throughout this? How did that return end up happening?
M: Yeah, Golden Theft was a continuation of ‘Mountains + Valleys’ – I recorded a few more songs with Utrillo and made it into an LP. I don’t think I had much of a fan base at that point outside of folks I knew or had played music with. I was so new to making records, that I didn’t really have a sense of how to do it in a way to get noticed. But Aquarius Records in SF was really supportive (they were the ones who told me it’s better to make your own label to put on a record, so Golden Theft was the first record on my label Spectacular Commodity). That record was the first to start to get noticed in underground circles. My musical community was growing as well. Utrillo had opened up a world of rad musical connections for me in the Bay Area, and my continued touring Australia meant that I was still meeting lots of band, radio, and press folks over there. As much as I loved living in SF and Oakland, I knew that Melbourne was a place I wanted to be – something about the early epiphanies I had had, and close friends I had made. After an Australian/New Zealand tour in 2013, I started dating a new partner I had met there. We dated long distance for while I was living in the states, then I moved back over to be with her.
(photo credit: Dave Brushback)
#8: So now you’re back in Melbourne. Is this the final move? How do you feel about moving so much? So next up is the 3rd LP, Gravity/Repulsion, which you originally released yourself. Was this recorded exclusively in Melbourne? Are you playing with a regular band or consistent musicians? Are you touring? Are you feeling settled back in Australia, working, feeling part of a community?
M: Gravity/Repulsion was recorded the week I left Oakland, it was both a culmination of all the work I had put in with Utrillo and Muslim Delgado as a band, and a sort of rushed going away. It was a shorter LP, but those were the songs we had at the time. If I had stayed in the Bay, I probably could have had someone there put the record out, but my plans were made and I was leaving. I was really proud to make that record with Muslim and Utrillo and Phil Manley. I can remember trying to shop it around to a few labels, but because I had just relocated, I was again up in the air with a home base. I played a few shows in 2016 as I started putting together a new band in Melb, but things went slowly as I got settled. My friend Lachlan Denton was particularly helpful/generous in getting things rolling with the band playing drums – he was a fan from when I had toured while living overseas, and he also recruited his brother Zac Denton to play bass in the early days. Sometime in 2016 I made the call to self-release the record – I was keen to get the ball rolling with shows and tours, and didn’t want to wait around. The release of the record was instrumental in helping me form the Melbourne community that I have today. My friend Tom Lyngcoln, The Old Bar, RRR, PBS, and Poison City Records all took a real interest in the record, and slowly spread the word around town without me noticing. Out of nowhere, people in Melbourne seemed to care. I’m still extremely flattered and blown away that that happened. I get the feeling that Tom Lyngcoln has done that for a ton of bands – he’s a real music scene powerhouse, having fronted and championed countless underground Australian bands.
#9: So is this the last major move for you, then? Have you been able to establish permanent visa status in Australia, either by this point in time or in the current? Can you speak a bit to what that process looks like? Has being an artist been helpful in any way towards securing citizenship?
M: For the time being it is. I can’t say what the future holds, but for now I’m pretty settled in Melbourne. I became an Australian citizen a few years ago (in addition to my US citizenship), so I can come and go as I please. That process can be quite different (and much more difficult) depending on the person, but in my case the real challenge was getting permanent residence – the step before citizenship. PR is a sizeable barrier to cross in Australian immigration – at that stage you are given ongoing rights to work, healthcare, social services, and eventually a path to citizenship. So most temporary visas don’t make the step from temporary to permanent residence easy. In my case, it was my 5th different visa (each of 1-2 years) before I could meet enough requirements (time/money/evidence/tests) to make that jump. In Australia, artists are at the bottom of the priority list for immigration – I would have had a better chance doing manual labour – so no, it didn’t help. In the end, it was only through my partner’s citizenship that I was able to immigrate.
#10: Looks like we’ve made it through the past, so let’s keep the questions current and future minded.How’s daily life in Australia? How are shows there for you? Are you seeing a difference in.. crowds, interest, appreciation, what have you between different countries/continents? Do you have favorites? Do you have least favorites? Are there forthcoming tours planned? Where do you go next?
M: Daily life in Australia is pretty good right now. I’m almost done with a year of touring (have a few shows around Australia with Tropical Fuck Storm for the next two weeks), so I’m finally getting a chance to settle a bit. More time to play music, try to grow some veggies, read, enjoy the summer. Really looking forward to the downtime. Shows have been really great this year, we’ve got to play with some great bands in Melbourne this year – The Hard Quartet, Lost Animal, Simon Joyner, Leah Senior, etc. Our album launch sold out, and the city has really come out to support us, which feels great. Outside of Melbourne, shows in Australia are probably comparable to shows in cities in the US or Europe. Some places/nights we have really great turnouts, and here and there you have an off night. It’s hard to pick a favourite, but this years shows at Hitness Club in Leipzig, Binic Folks Blues in France, Dabadaba in Donostia, Gonerfest in Memphis, Soft Junk in Nashville, The Earl in Atlanta, Union Pool in Brooklyn, and Kilowatt in SF, The Tote in Melbourne were ones – fantastic crowds, great sound, great vibe, so we could really get into a zone on stage. There are unconfirmed festival offers floating around for both the US and Europe next year, so hopefully we can book tours around them. My guess is I’ll be in the US in August next year, but it’s a little bit of wait and see. I’d love to finally make it back to Minneapolis!
#11: I’ll be 47 that month, somehow: come play here and I’ll book it myself.You’re a somewhat similar age, yea? What keeps you kicking around the underground after a couple decades? Do you anticipate ever being able to live solely off art? Can you picture it being done on your own terms? I’ve seen you’ve pulled your music off Spotify – will you discuss the impetus behind this?
M: Sounds good – I’ll try my best! Yeah, I was born in ’81, so we’re pretty similar ages. If the nature of your question is why do I keep making music at 20 years, I’d say I still love doing it. As far as why my music remains underground probably has something to do with the type of music I make and the circles I run in. As much as I’d love housing security or extra time to do things at a slower pace (two of the things I imagine financial ‘success’ would bring), I wouldn’t or couldn’t change the way I’m doing things if I tried. So in that sense, my music will hopefully always be on my terms – I’m pretty stubborn in that regard. I can’t really foresee a realistic way that my music is my sole source of income, but I’ve set things up so hopefully it can be a good part of it. The private teaching practice that I run allows me to engage with music for work, and to pass on what’s helped me do what I do, so that feels like pretty decent fortune.I pulled my music off Spotify and Amazon this week. I was happy to disengage from those services. I’d refer anyone who’s curious to find out more about what’s going on to have a look at Deerhoof’s Instagram posts on the matter (or related news coverage) – it’s pretty in depth. Basically, those two platforms were engaging in practices I found pretty revolting, and I didn’t want to be even a miniscule part of their benefiting financially. I pass no judgement on anyone else’s choices in that regard, but it felt right for me. For anyone needing the convenience, there are plenty of other services that do similar things, and ones like Bandcamp let you support artists and labels directly. Maybe one day there will be less focus on convenience in finding music, and more on the benefits of putting in a little bit of work to find something new.
#12: You mentioned private teaching – will you elaborate on this? What is it you teach? Is there a specific clientele? Have you ever had musical teachers yourself? And then: what’s on the horizon for you? Can we discuss the release we’re chatting on? Are there other releases you’re planning towards?
M: I’ve taught piano, guitar, and singing for the last 20 years. I find I work best with folks who are self disciplined, so that mostly means adults, but I’ve got some great younger students as well. I took private lessons as an adult, and had two teachers that made a big impression on me, both in my ability to begin to develop my own musical style, and eventually to teach, which I’m very grateful for. Doing so has allowed me to have the flexibility and income to tour and make records, and that hands-on experience is really where I learned how to do everything I’m doing now. I’m currently working on a grant to help fund an upcoming record that Greg Cartwright and I are working on. We wrote a couple songs together when I was in Memphis a few months back and had a great time. We got Natalie and Keith from Optic Sink and JB from Aquarian Blood to help us flesh things out, and the demos sounded really interesting. So I’m hoping to go back and do that this year. I’m also getting a solo set together for a run of shows with Tropical Fuck Storm starting this week, and then need to do some more arrangement for a collab performance with Lloyd Swanton, Mick Turner, and Joe Talia in January. Then in December I’m gonna rest!Super stoked about the possibility of this live record with 25 Diamonds! So stoked you asked, I’ve never released any live performances before. Later this month, I’m gonna listen back to a bunch of recordings from our tours. At this point, I’m thinking one side will be a band thing, and the other might be an excerpt from that January show in Sydney I mentioned before. The last record had two sides to it – kinda a rock band thing, and a more expansive improv sounding thing, so it would be nice to have bits of both. I guess we’ll just wait and see!
#13: I’m not sure how I want to wrap this up. So I have 2 thoughts:
1, my friend Fred and I had a conversation a few days ago where we talked about the state of making art in 2025, and more specifically about a feeling that young people don’t seem to connect to music in the way we did when we were young – that there isn’t the community involvement, the obsession with and pursuit of favorite bands – that music is consumed in 20 second sound bites from Tik Tok videos rather than digging through record stores. Are you feeling any of this? Do you have any inklings towards what the future of artist support and independent music looks like? Do you see positives or negatives towards this?
2, are there topics we haven’t discussed that you would like to? In essence, I’d like you to ask and answer a question yourself.Thanks Mike! You know I’m a big fan, both musically and personally – I’m excited for what your future holds.
M: For sure, a new generation is going to experience art and music differently than our generation did, especially at the rate things are evolving. Probably different from my preferences for consuming art (I definitely like the community/live band thing too), but I can’t say if it’s better or worse. I’m sure the way I listen to music is already much different now than before we had some much internet around. I’ve got no idea about the future (artist support or otherwise). Art is going to keep happening, and it’s certainly going to look different than it has before. On that topic, maybe it’s good to end by shining some light on a book that I’ve loved recently, that in its own way discusses the nature of art (and the emergence of the poetic image as essential to the human experience) – The Poetics of Space by Gaston Bauchelard. Published in the early sixties, it was a huge influence on modern philosophers like Deleuze and Foucault as well as the fields of art, design, architecture, and many others. At times quite heady, but usually pretty absorbable, it’s a true wonder. My friends Ben Chasny and Pete Warden were both banging on about it around the same time, and it made an indelible impression on me. I can’t recommend it enough. Great to chat, and hope to see ya over there soon!
25 DIAMONDS LABEL 